Warning: this article contains some spoilers for Deadpool & Wolverine!
In Deadpool & Wolverine, Ryan Reynolds’ Merc With a Mouth gives Hugh Jackman’s Logan a warm welcome to the Marvel Cinematic Universe before admitting, “You’ve arrived at a bit of a low point.” It’s one of numerous times the new film takes a self-aware jab at the state of the MCU and the generally mixed reception to Marvel’s post-Avengers: Endgame lineup. Deadpool & Wolverine makes it a point to reinforce the idea that some fans aren’t quite buying what Marvel Studios is selling these days.
But if there’s been one thing true about the MCU from the beginning, it’s that Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige has a plan. Directed by Shawn Levy, Deadpool & Wolverine may poke fun at this sprawling cinematic universe, but it also exists as a piece of that much larger machine. IGN recently had the opportunity to speak with Feige and learn more about the evolving state of the MCU and how Deadpool’s latest movie misadventure fits in. Let’s see what he had to say and whether this team-up is the cure for what ails Marvel.
Why Deadpool Mocks the MCU
Again, Deadpool & Wolverine may induct both characters into the MCU, but the movie is never afraid to roast Marvel over the coals or acknowledge the growing backlash to the MCU’s Multiverse Saga. At one point, faced with a literal army of Deadpool variants from across the Marvel multiverse, Reynolds’ Deadpool Prime loses his cool and shouts what many of us have been thinking: The multiverse isn’t working. People are fed up. Let’s move onto something new.
It’s both brave of Marvel to put itself on blast like that and a little dismissive of the hard work that’s gone into crafting the last five years’ worth of Marvel movies and shows, critically acclaimed or not. But either way, Feige is adamant that Marvel had to be willing to put itself in the line of fire this time around. If Deadpool can shatter the fourth wall and make fun of anything and everything, lampooning Marvel Studios had to be on the table.
"The great thing about Deadpool is he'll just directly talk about all of it. And if you ever find yourself saying, 'It's okay if Deadpool makes fun of a lot of things, but don't make fun of me,' you're not a cool guy. You're not a fun person." Feige tells IGN. "I've always said, "Who does Deadpool make fun of the most? Ryan Reynolds." Deadpool makes fun of Ryan Reynolds all the time. So I think it is an honor that he now gets to poke fun at us and at Marvel."
Marvel may be having a bit of fun with itself in this new movie, but there’s no getting around the fact that the jokes about multiverse fatigue and waning fan enthusiasm speak to very real problems surrounding the MCU. A lot of MCU fans are genuinely dissatisfied with the state of the Marvel line, and that’s borne out by the studio’s box office woes in 2023. Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania underperformed, and The Marvels wound up becoming the lowest-grossing MCU movie of all time.
Both films played key roles in shaping the direction of the Multiverse Saga, particularly with Quantumania being the first movie to feature overarching villain Kang the Conqueror. Despite that, moviegoers simply failed to embrace these new chapters.
Even Feige admits that the MCU has been experiencing some growing pains of late. Given how successful Endgame was, it was always going to be an uphill battle to rebuild that momentum and establish a new generation of heroes.
"I think when the expectations are 'biggest movie of all time,' those are pretty lofty expectations. At least we were the biggest movie, briefly, before Avatar [The Way of Water] was released," Feige says. "But they're high bars and there's a dichotomy at Marvel Studios where we like being the underdog and we like exceeding expectations. But we also like setting the bar higher than the bar's ever been set before. Those are two things that are hard to keep navigating over the years."
One could argue that if the MCU is on the road to recovery, the first step is for this universe to acknowledge its shortcomings and admit it has a problem. Deadpool & Wolverine is only too happy to serve that purpose.
But is there a line? How far is too far for the MCU’s first R-rated film? How do you even reconcile Deadpool’s raunchy sense of humor with the comparatively straitlaced MCU? For Feige, it all comes down to obeying one of the great unwritten rules of comedy, which Ryan Reynolds is quite aware of.
"He put it very well at one point saying, 'Deadpool always punches up. You can punch up as much as you want. Never punches down.' He's never mean-spirited or mean-hearted. That's not funny," Feige says. "So he actually, he knows where that line is. Shawn [Levy] and Ryan know what that line is. Know inherently what that line is. Ryan probably better than more than anyone because even though there's the F-bombs, and even though there's a blood spurting with claws and katanas, there is a core decency and heart to the movie and to the characters. Ryan is the great arbiter of that."
Should the MCU Phase Out Phases?
The MCU has always been divided into phases, with the current Phase 5 forming the middle act of the ongoing Multiverse Saga. It’s an approach that served Marvel well during the Infinity Saga, which benefited from an orderly structure wherein each phase culminated in an Avengers team-up movie and laid the groundwork for the next phase to come.
The Multiverse Saga has proven to be much more freeform in structure, and thus far there haven’t been any Avengers movies to speak of. That won’t happen until Avengers 5 (once titled Avengers: The Kang Dynasty) finally gets the band back together in 2026. It’s enough to wonder - is Marvel veering away from the old phase structure? Should they do away with phases altogether?
Feige says, "Phasing out phases? No, I mean phases have always simply been the point in time in which the project's made, and this movie is very much, with Deadpool discussing the current state of the MCU, very much of its time of where we are in the phases. So I would say it's in there, but that's sort of besides the point when it comes to Deadpool & Wolverine."
It’s interesting that Feige says that phases are about when a show or movie is being made, and perhaps that’s how they’re regarded at the studio these days. But that certainly wasn’t the case during the Infinity Saga, when the movies were clearly building to something with each successive installment.
Regardless, as Feige alludes, Deadpool & Wolverine is a bit of an outlier when it comes to its palace within the larger Phase 5. The movie is surprisingly self-contained by Marvel’s usual standards. Sure, it builds on elements introduced in the Loki series and the general history of Fox’s X-Men universe, but it’s ultimately a standalone story about two aging heroes embarking on a wacky, redemptive road trip. Indeed, even Shawn Levy told IGN that Deadpool & Wolverine is not part of any phase that he was aware of.
Very little of Deadpool & Wolverine actually takes place within the MCU. Instead, it unfolds mostly within the wasteland realm known as The Void or in Wade’s world of Earth-10005. The potential is certainly there for both Deadpool and Wolverine to play an ongoing role in MCU affairs, but the movie leaves that up to future sequels to decide. If anything, it’s a bit of a palate cleanser before the climax of Phase 5 begins in 2025's Captain America: Brave New World.
But the fact remains that Deadpool & Wolverine is the only MCU movie to come out this year. According to Feige, Marvel didn’t specifically plan on giving fans a breather in 2024. It’s simply a matter of how the pieces fell into place on the third Deadpool movie.
"I think a lot of that, like everything else in life, comes down to timing," Feige says. "It is timing that Disney acquired Fox, that we got the rights to the characters, that we’d had meetings with Ryan on and off for a couple of years trying to figure out what would the best storyline be for a third Deadpool, for the first Deadpool within Marvel Studios."
Perhaps the most important piece to fall, or perhaps it’s return in this case, was Hugh Jackman deciding he wanted to pop his claws once again.
"The greatest bit of timing, as I’m sure you’ve heard, is when Hugh called Ryan and said 'You know, I’d like to come back,'” Feige says. "Because if that call had come a year from now, or three years before, I’m not sure… I mean, I am sure it wouldn’t have been as much of a slam dunk as it was in the exact moment that he called, which was the exact same we brought Shawn on board to direct and we were trying to crack the movie. And there were a lot of great elements that ended up in the movie, but there was just something missing, and we were about to say let’s slow down, retool, and figure out what was missing when Hugh called and said 'I’m missing.' And it was perfect."
Leaning Into Comic Book Craziness
There’s been a definite sea change with the MCU in recent years, with things shifting in a decidedly more comic book-inspired direction compared to the relatively more grounded Infinity Saga. The very fact that the multiverse is in play is a big part of that transition. The MCU is now dealing with alternate universes, branching timelines, and the idea that multiple incarnations of the same character can exist and even cross paths.
Depending on your personal inclinations, that can be seen as either a good or bad thing. Comic book readers have had decades to come to terms with concepts like alternate universes and time travel, but what about general moviegoers? Is the advent of the multiverse inherently a turnoff to some? Has the MCU grown too convoluted for its own good?
Feige doesn’t seem to think so. He’s of the mindset that audiences ultimately care about the story, and they’ll roll with the punches so long as the struggles these heroes face are real and compelling.
"I think the only thing we take into consideration is the story we're telling and the story we're telling in the moment. What's great about these characters in 85 years of Marvel comic history is they do go on, the characters do continue, like all great mythological characters continue. They evolve and they change," Feige argues. "Part of what you will see in Deadpool and Wolverine is how Hugh as this character has changed and evolved. And some of that is based on the time we're in. Some of that is based on fictional narratives of timelines and Time Variance Authorities."
Another common complaint leveled against the MCU is that it’s simply become too big and complex for the average fan to follow. With as many as four new films and various Disney+ shows dropping in the span of a single year, keeping up with the MCU isn’t nearly as simple as it was in the old days. But Feige still views these increased layers of continuity as a feature, not a bug. Again, he feels fans are willing to go along for the ride so long as the fundamental story being told is compelling and relatable.
"I always love it when disparate elements of our storylines come together," Feige says. "So of course Deadpool and Wolverine coming together, but there are surprises throughout the movie that I think are amazing to see up on screen and to see certain combinations up on screen."
Feige continues, "You're talking about timelines, even Wolverine wearing a TVA jacket I find fun and exciting in the way that we can combine these storylines into something that ultimately is a pure story about these two individuals and the relationship that they have. The cathartic arc that they take together over the course of the movie. Everything else is fun Easter eggs for people who want to pay attention to such things. Like me."
Do you think Deadpool & Wolverine is the big pivot the MCU needed? How are you feeling about the state of this cinematic universe? Let us know your thoughts in the comments.
For more on Deadpool & Wolverine, see what Kevin Feige has to say about the post-MCU quality debate and brush up on the inconsistent history of X-Men video games.
Jesse is a mild-mannered staff writer for IGN. Allow him to lend a machete to your intellectual thicket by following @jschedeen on Twitter.
